North Queensferry Community Council (NQCC)

Draft Minutes of Community Council Meeting: Thursday 8 February 2018


NQCC: Lin Collis - Chair (LC), Christina McKenzie (CM), Jim George (JG), David Shields (DS), Donna Beveridge (DCB), Peter Selbie (PS), Sheila Foggon (SF),

Fife Council (FC) Councillors: Cllr David Barratt (DB), Cllr Dave Dempsey (DD); Cllr Alice McGarry (AM)

Two members of the public.  

   Agenda Reference



1. Apologies

Cllr. Lesley Laird (MP for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath)

Iain G Mitchell (IGM), Bruce Finlayson (BF), Mary Finlayson (MF)

The Police.


2. Minutes of Previous Meeting

Previous minutes, 9.1: ‘toilet at Battery Road may be replaced’. Minutes approved: proposed PS; seconded DS



3. Matters Arising

1. Defibrillator (10.1): Meeting 6 February held with representatives from North Queensferry Heritage Trust (NQHT) and North Queensferry Community Trust (NQCT).  Next meeting will be March (inviting representation from the Community Centre). Four locations for defibrillators are being considered:  One at the station (NQHT) and the marina (NQCT) but funds still required for defibrillators either at the telephone box on Main Road or the bus stop on Battery Road and at the Community Centre. 

Cost of a defibrillator: £1450. It is intended to use one type throughout the village.  Training will be offered, although the machines have good instructions.

2. Muga (10.2) The £500 outstanding for MUGA needs to be paid.

3. Christmas Tree (14) The shop has agreed to supply power for lighting trees at the Brock Street station exit at Christmas.

4. Bridge graffiti (16.5) Network Rail still being chased to remove.

5. The Albert Hotel (16.9). The owner and lease holder of the Albert have been identified. The owner confirmed that the Albert will reopen in the next few weeks and would appreciate support from the village community.






4. Police Report

The written report noted 11 calls

2 crime calls: a collision in Battery Road, the driver didn’t stop; presentation of a counterfeit note at the Queensferry Hotel.


5. Local Community Officer

Susan Dryburgh, the Local Community Officer for this area, gave an overview of the War Memorials project (supported by the War Memorial Trust) which she is working on. The aim is to clean the brass and repoint the stone of War Memorials.  Susan is looking into refreshing the tourist interpretation board adjacent to the War Memorial.


6. Traffic issues

1. Traffic Management Plan: It was suggested that the increased tourism profile of North Queensferry merits a Traffic Impact Assessment, however Fife Council Traffic Management team advise that this would cost £15,000.

Deep Sea World needs a traffic management plan for its expected planning application however NQCC are looking for a plan to cover the whole village and to be available to developers considering village projects.

Parking attendants are now active in the village: two penalty charges have been issued (a car parked on a double lines and one parked on a bus stop).



7. Forth Replacement Crossing Community Forum

1. No Forum meeting since November 2017. Audit Scotland interviewed LC about the new bridge and community opinion.

2. Ferrytoll Park and Ride: discussion noted improvements to the traffic light sequencing and traffic movement.


8. Children’s play park

FC has been asked to consider re-using equipment from Pittencrieff Park. FC councillors suggest Pierhead could be a community funded play park like the successful one in Aberdour.  FC would be the contractor and responsible for maintenance.


9.  Public Toilets

FC waiting for advice on funding.  The time for removing this toilet cannot be extended. These public toilets had low usage in 2017.


10. Trees at Northcliffe

The Tree Management plan was discussed with local residents.

NQCC has been assured that the tree felling was carried out in accordance with the Tree Management Plan and also that the trees along the roadside have been assessed and deemed to be safe.

For subsequent work, the contractor requires access from the community centre field and is concerned about the proximity of the MUGA. DS and JG visiting Northcliffe in due course.








11. Edinburgh Flight Path

No progress/change to date.

DS attended Edinburgh Noise Advisory Board meeting which proposed a small working group to work on technical issues. BF will represent NQCC with back up from DS as necessary. There are 200 Community Councils in the affected area.  The Board is funded by Edinburgh Airport however measures were discussed to ensure independence from the airport. 



12. Fife Councillor’s Report

1. Park hit squad – project suggestions needed. To date:

  • Tidy the rose beds beside the Brock Street station entrance.
  • Repair damaged benches at the railway pier beach. DS checking ownership.

LC emailing councillors with project suggestions.

2 Parking concerns at Carlingnose Point from cars unable to park at the station. No action.





13. Community Group Updates


1. NQHT’s next speaker is former NQCC Secretary Barbara McKechnie 27 February

2. NQCT Railway Pier repairs requires use of Fastcrete.  Environmental compliance requirements are being checked and NQCT still waiting for advice from Historic Scotland.




14.  Planning Applications

One new application: a raised Sedum roof at Shoreland, Main Road.  


15. Treasurer’s report

NQCC agreed to contribute:

  • £200 towards the Ferry News
  • £50 to the Salvation Army for Remembrance Sunday.



16. Floral Enhancement

No plant activity this month.

Floral enhancement grant requires: copies of the accounts to March 2017 and NQCC’s constitution.

FC introducing new application forms. LC investigating.





17. Correspondence



18. Any other competent business

1. Forth Bridges Forum Tourism Group meeting 2 February

  • Tourism Strategy summary near completion to be circulated for comment soon.
  • FC interested in including publicity for a Bridges Circular Walk on the Fife Tourism Website - meeting with FC to take forward.
  • Opening the Queensferry Crossing has resulted in a 40% decrease in trade in South Queensferry, particularly McDonald’s and Tesco Fuel (no longer open over night).
  • South Queensferry’s UNESCO plaque unveiled on 4 March. North Queensferry’s on 18 April (World Heritage Day).

2. West Sands’ street Lights – 3 or 4 not working.  To report such issues use FC website: www.fifedirect.org.uk/streetlighting

3. West Sands, two issues:  parking of unsightly old vehicle; installation of CCTV without neighbourhood consultation or signage. DD investigating both concerns.

4. Rerouting the Coastal Path. Meeting arranged for 13 February with Transport Scotland to look at options/feasibility.

5.  Insurance Renewal: FC will advise NQCC when insurance is due. 

6. Diversion of email correspondence while secretary is away.

7. Beach Clean: Marine Conservation Society currently monitoring Ferrycraigs Beach. ITV filmed a recent beach clean there and this will broadcast at 1930 on 15 February (ITV Tonight).  Beach Cleans are being planned for 27 / 28 April

8. Barnardo’s second fundraiser. Network Rail have announced of another Barnardo’s (up to top of Rail Bridge) fundraiser, possibly 8/9 or 22/23 September.  Barnardo’s suggesting that a portion of the funds could be set aside for a community event.   Action – check date for possible clash with following event.  CM responding to Craig Bowman’s email and confirming that someone from NQCC will attend.

9. The annual South Queensferry to North Queensferry swim takes place on 22 September. NQCC to contact Vigour Events re management of traffic, especially coaches.



































Next NQCC meeting:  7.30pm, Thursday 8 March 2018, North Queensferry Community Centre.  Members of the public are very welcome to attend.





14 March 2018Edinburgh Airport Consultation - Airspace Change Programme (ACP) Summary

Edinburgh Airport: Airspace Change Programme (ACP) Summary by North Queensferry Community Council 14 March 2018

The ACP has three proposed routes that affect North Queensferry -routes D, E and F. In combination these routes will see flights over/very close to North Queensferry 365 days a year. Over 600 responses were submitted from the wider area to these routes during the consultation last year, mostly in opposition.

Consideration of the ACP application was suspended by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) in September last year as route E was found not to be flyable. The new route E is much closer to North Queensferry than the one they consulted on and the fact the Airport have made this material change without further consultation has been raised by Lesley Laird MP with both the Airport and the CAA. There are also issues with the way the noise impacts have been assessed (models assume aircraft will be on a centreline), which again have been raised with the Airport and the CAA.

It is understood the ACP process is to re-start this month, with the Airport hoping for a decision by October/November.

Noise Action Plan (NAP)

The NAP was launched for consultation on 20th February and the consultation runs until 2nd April. The NAP is a statutory document and only takes into account areas close to the runway, not areas such as North Queensferry which experience almost no noise for long periods, with relatively high levels at other times.

At the drop-in session in Dalgety Bay last week, the Airport confirmed that they are looking for ideas on how to reduce noise impacts in areas not previously covered by the NAP in view of the fact the number of flights is set to increase over the coming years.

Noise Advisory Board (NAB)

The Board meets every month and has a principle aim of reducing noise in affected communities. It is independent from the Airport but the Airport do (or have said they will) provide funding to appoint contractors and for installation of noise monitors etc. Progress to date has been slow but a work programme is now being developed with sub-groups looking at the best locations to install noise monitors, the analysis of historic flight data to ascertain what changes to flight paths have already taken place and problems with the use of noise modelling.

The NAB was not consulted on the Noise Action Plan and the Board do not agree with the way the Airport has described the NAB within the document. A letter has been written to the Chair of Edinburgh Airport's Board asking for the NAP consultation to be withdrawn.

Previous report:

BF and MF attended a meeting with EAL and other Community Council representatives at Edinburgh Airport on 25.09.17:

Edinburgh Airport gave a presentation on their application to CAA. At that stage CAA had suspended EAL’s application and EAL intimated that the changes required were minor which was in contradiction to the actual published letter from CAA which indicated serious issues with the applied for routes.

The application prior to suspension was substantially different from the proposals in the second consultation. In the proposal document during east winds which occur approximately 30% of the time there were 45 flights a day proposed on Route E6 over the bridges to the south of us with a spread overhead of us and S Queensferry. In the actual application there were up to 111 directly over the villages on Route E7 at 4-7000ft. At this height flights will be more than loud enough to interrupt conversations on the ground in the village. At the meeting presentation this was not highlighted and flights on route D0 in west winds also over the village were stated as occurring only in peak morning hours up to only 6 flights per day. They also stated in the presentation that any changes to approved flight paths after the application would require a new consultation.

In later correspondence however EAL apologised that this was incorrect and that the morning overflights would be up to 11.  Other Community Councils expressed concerns that this is not a consultation in the true sense of the word. They indicated that they had already seen changes to flight paths. This EAL categorically denied. EAL have since communicated that the 111 flights a day are not a significant change to North Queensferry because we already have 99 flights a day affecting us in east winds. This refers to the flight path to the north of us and over Dalgety Bay where currently flights over the village are at 10,000 feet. We and several other Community Council representatives feel that EAL “stretch the truth” and only present the facts in a light which omits community concerns.

The Environmental Report accompanying the application is completed.  The'Tranquillity Report' - says 'minimal effect'.   Action MF to contact S Queensferry CC re combining efforts and consolidating with other CCs.

Noise levels were discussed - well respected programmes have been used for predicting noise - but these do not take account of the local environment.  Night flights, which are restricted over London, will not in general be restricted at Edinburgh but for now Route D0 is morning peak 6.00am to 10.00am only and E7 is from 6.00am to 11.00pm.

DD stated FC on side of communities - but there is not enough expertise to make a judgement. Sufficient resources are required for a proper independent Environmental Assessment to challenge Edinburgh Airport.  Any costs for commissioning such a study needs to be shared with other councils.

Flight paths are a UK matter and Noise Management is a devolved issue but nevertheless the Scottish Government has shown no appetite to support the local communities. Action: invite MP Douglas Chapman to speak to NQCC.

As at 8 May 2017: see www.letsgofurther.com for the proposed flightpath over Inverkeithing to Rosyth.  (Route D) .  The request for response to the Consultation has now closed but if there are incividual incidences of excessive noise, contact details are on the website on the FAQ tab if a member of the public wishes to make a complaint.  

North Queensferry Community Council (NQCC) has made an objection to the Flight Path Consultation.  A councillor represented NQCC at a round table discussion at the Scottish Parliament with other Community Councils on 20 April 2017 prior to the submsission of the Objection.

A copy of the final objection is in the Document Library (Correspondence May 2017).


08 February 2018Current Draft Minutes

    North Queensferry Community Council (NQCC)

Draft Minutes of Community Council Meeting: Thursday 8 March 2018


NQCC: Iain G Mitchell – Chair (IGM), Lin Collis -  (LC), Bruce Finlayson (BF), Mary Finlayson (MF), Sheila Foggon (SF), Jim George (JG), Peter Selbie (PS), David Shields (DS),

Fife Council (FC) Councillors: Cllr David Barratt (DB), Cllr Dave Dempsey (DD); Police:  Jim Bell (JB), Richard Duncan (RD); Four members of the public.


Agenda Reference




1. Apologies

Cllr. and MP for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath Lesley Laird, Cllr Alice McGarry (AM), Donna Beveridge (DCB), Christina McKenzie (CM).


2. Minutes of

Previous Meeting

Previous minutes approved: proposed IM; seconded LC

One amendment (3.5): contact The Albert Hotel leaseholder not owner.



3. Matters Arising

3.2 Treasurer not available to comment on £500 outstanding for MUGA.

3.4 Graffiti still to be removed by Network Rail.

5. Local community Officers remit is War Memorials only.

10. Visit to Northcliffe – JG / DS still to arrange.

12 Projects for Hit Squad sent to councillors.

18.8 Both Barnardo’s Bridge Fundraiser and Vigour Events SQ-NQ Swim on 22 September.  Alert organisers and encourage liaison on transport.










4. Police Report

16 calls reported: still investigating threat incident at Pierhead.  West Sands: abandoned car and use of CCTV Police advising.  Public consultation re speeding on Ferryhills Road raised.  Police holding a community drop in at Dobbies Dalgety Bay 16 March 10-12noon.   Police checking feasibility of meeting Pierhead residents either late afternoon or on a Saturday.




5. Traffic Management Plan / Village Snags Meeting

Traffic Management/ village snags meeting postponed due to weather. A Traffic Management Plan would cost at least £15k. More traffic issues concerning articulated lorries reported. Concerns that Sat. Nav. is causing unsuitable traffic to enter the village.






6. Forth Replacement Crossing Community Forum

This forum has been disbanded.



7. UNESCO World Heritage plaque unveiling

LC and PS attended UNESCO plaque unveiling in South Queensferry.  Area Services organising unveiling of NQ’s UNESCO plaque on 18 April, on the wall by the Albert bus stop.








8.  Edinburgh Airport:

a) Formalisation of sub group

b) Flight paths

a): Sub Group formed consisting of IM, BF, MF, Moira Clark, John Clark, Malcolm Thoms.  Remit: flight path consultation and noise issues; reporting to NQCC; correspondence via NQCC.  BF represents NQCC on the Edinburgh Airport Noise Advisory Board.  BF to list which bodies NQCC is represented on and put on NQCC website.
(DD is Fife representative on the Airport Consultative Committee)
b): Original consultation is on hold and will restart soon.  There is a lack of clarity and distrust of Edinburgh Airport and the consultation process.  A summary of the flight path issue will be added to the NQCC website and posted on noticeboards.  An action group has been started and NQCC has been invited to join. NQCC agree to attend this group, but not to commit to legal action or other actions requiring expenditure without further consideration.







9.  Village Defibrillators update


SF has learned from Linlithgow First Responders of a defibrillator that is compatible with the Ambulance Service.  Funds in place to progress placing defibrillators at the community centre, station and the Marina.  Possibility of using the telephone box near the War Memorial but the phone would have to be removed, but only after consultation with the village Suggestion of obtaining a redundant telephone box and locating it at The Albert.  Next meeting: 27 March.



10. Consultation on revision of Community Council Election Rules

New rules are clear except for reference to a polling station yet the vote is by post. Contact FC.



11. Fife Councillor’s Reports

  • David Neill proposed action to rejuvenate and improve Pierhead Play Park – described as one of the most picturesque in Scotland.DD has spoken to school and proposes forming a group.Applying for funds requires a constituted body – could NQCC or Community Trust help? Any play area must comply with FC Health and Safety guidelines.
  • DD: Spoke with Ian Jones regarding the setts on Main Street.Told that long road closures required.JG asked to review Risk Assessments and Method Statements for this work.
  • Stuart Biggar reviewing tourism signage for the village and found an App which he is looking to improve.Stuart contacting LC.













12. Community Group Updates

  1. West Bay Users Group – currently seeking permissions for emergency repairs to Railway Pier to take place at spring low tides.
  2. Village Show takes place 8 September.




13. The Albert


Community Trust is exploring the possibility of a pre-emption of what is a Community Asset.  This does depend on the owner selling the property and requires 10% support from the public.  Potential uses – Pub / Air B&B / Bunkhouse.   Latter would support The Pilgrim Way which starts here. The Trust is currently investigating the level of resident support for the Albert continuing as a pub with support from other appropriate activities.





14.  Planning Applications

No plans posted with proposals for 20 Carlingnose Point JG chasing up.




15. Treasurer’s report

 No report



16. Floral Enhancement

Meeting with the Brae planters but action waiting for better weather.


17. Correspondence

Data Protection / Spanglefish Website Renewals received.



18.  Any Other Competent Business

  1. In general the village managed well in the recent bad weather. NQCC thanked local people who checked on elderly neighbours while others helped by using their 4x4 transport. Consider where there are gaps in resident support and please contact NQCC with any suggestions.
  2. LC met Ann Camus to look at a circular tourist trail incorporating the bridges.
  3. JG, DS and Garry Irvine of NQHT attended meeting with Transport Scotland (TS) about the Admiral’s House, the Gate House and Coastal Path diversion.TS has to sell the properties once they are no longer required and the boundaries are reinstated.JG asked if TS intended to consult NQCC regarding the use of the house.The answer was no, not intended.TS has concerns that bringing the Coast Path in closer proximity to Admiral’s House would jeopardise the sale and they have safety concerns over sharing the access road with the path used by vehicles operated by Scottish Power and Amey. TS have to offer the Admiral’s house to the previous owner before it can go on the open market.
  4. Car parking attendants state that parking on double yellow lines is OK for 10 minutes. DB checking.






















Next Meeting:


Thursday  12 April, 7:30 North Queensferry Community Centre




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